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Offline Molino

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Citizenship News
« on: March 13, 2019, 10:47:31 PM »
Just thought I would give you an update in case any of you had applied for citizenship...this might be helpful...or NOT

We applied for citizenship on December 6th, as EU residents we were told that we could apply after 4 years permanent residency in Italy (with certification to prove that). We were told that all applications would be honoured up until March 29th (or whenever the UK leaves the EU). After that date, as a NON member of the EU, we would have to wait to apply after 10 years of residency.
Today we hear that our application has been refused
We have been told today that we need the relevant 'certification of Italian language' brought into law on Dec 1st.
It has taken them 3 months from the date of our application to tell us this. There is no mention of this on the online application form as it has still not been updated....
The certificate has to be a specified model of B1 status PLIDA which requires the course and the exam to follow.
I think it is fairly certain that we will now not be able to obtain this exam certificate in time before the Brexit 'leave' date, unless of course there is a HUGE extension.
So....if any of you applied after Dec 1 2018...expect the same, sooner or later.
What a total shambles, we are of course gutted.    M


Offline levissima

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 11:33:32 PM »
Does it not count that you made your application in time? Can you not continue to meet the criteria for getting citizenship after the exit date if you made your application before that date? If not then no one will be able to get citizenship!

What a #*5=Ing mess!

Offline Molino

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 10:40:32 AM »
Does it not count that you made your application in time? Can you not continue to meet the criteria for getting citizenship after the exit date if you made your application before that date? If not then no one will be able to get citizenship!

What a #*5=Ing mess!

Our application was made on Dec 6, the new law about the language test came in on Dec 1. This means when we submitted it, it was in fact incomplete. The application has been refused on this basis. Once refused, there is no going back. We can not continue to meet the criteria as it was 'refused'. All we can do is to re-apply at another cost of ?200 each with a new application along with the certificate (which we don't have).

 We will probably not have the time to do the relevant language course and obtain the certificate before the Brexit leave date. Even today, there is still nothing on the application form for citizenship to tell you that you must submit this language certificate, but if you don't it will be refused.

 Only applications that are considered 'on-going' in other words, accepted as complete will be considered for citizenship upto the Brexit leave date. The term to obtain citizenship has also been extended from 2 years from submission date, to 4 years. They are obviously trying their best to slow down/reject applications as there was a surge after the leave vote!

Offline GeordieBorn

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 11:03:48 AM »
I have to admit to having no knowledge of, or real interest in, this subject, but I have read a few posts elsewhere on the matter and some of it may help (or not). I?ve not looked at the actual links they provided, but the post said the change made was retrospective to any claim ?still in the queue?.  On another post on the subject there was advice to someone to look at applying instead for a ?attestazione di soggiorno permanente per cittadini dell'UE?. A subject I suspect that has also been discussed here before. I?m guessing they are saying, if you have 5 years being legally resident in Italy and you get such before the UK leaves. This will give you breathing space if you wish to apply for citizenship after (if) the UK leaves. A follow up by the OP a few days later and they got this (granted in Rome) by filling in a single form, taking this and a bollo to the comune and came out with said certificate. Another poster (living much further south) did the same, but had a lot more  difficulty, but still was eventually told to come back next week to pick up his certificate.   

Offline Molino

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 11:55:45 AM »
  On another post on the subject there was advice to someone to look at applying instead for a ?attestazione di soggiorno permanente per cittadini dell'UE?. A subject I suspect that has also been discussed here before. I?m guessing they are saying, if you have 5 years being legally resident in Italy and you get such before the UK leaves. This will give you breathing space if you wish to apply for citizenship after (if) the UK leaves.

This certificate you are talking about is the permanent residence certificate which you get after 5 years of residency. (We already have this) The Italian government is urging everyone resident here to get this before March 29 so as they can continue with their rights such as SSN care and be safely a permanent resident of Italy... it gives you breathing space only in so much as you will be a legal resident. This is different and not connected to citizenship...

The law with citizenship is that you have to have been resident here for 4 years if you are an EU member before you can apply. If you are not an EU member (which the UK will soon not be!) then you have to wait 10 years before you can apply. This is the problem. Applying for citizenship is a long complicated process requiring lots of paperwork,  so if you apply after 4 years, you have an on-going application and could , in theory, get citizenship. But, after March 29 (when the UK is supposed to be leaving the EU) then your 4 year application will be rejected unless you have been resident for 10 years (which we have not quite!) Of course...it could all change, it is looking possible that the deadline of March 29 will be moved, if so, it could mean that there is more time to apply for either the permanent resident certificate, or for citizenship...all to be confirmed of course being as nobody has a clue what is going on!

Offline GeordieBorn

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2019, 12:56:52 PM »
The post was simly to add information and advice if you did not have permanent EU residence. Hopefully you (and others) are you aware Salvini also wants to remove any dual nationality in the process.

Offline iggle piggle

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2019, 11:12:25 PM »

I'm afraid the issue regarding the language certificate is well-known and many applications are being rejected on this basis (even though they have only just updated the online application apparently). It was virtually impossible in the period between the Italian government's decision to request a B1 level language certificate and the BREXIT deadline to actually sit the exam and get the results in time (there are apparently 4 different exam certificates which are considered acceptable). Some people I think are pleading their cases/taking proof that they are sitting the exam/waiting for the results etc, but any applications made now are being stopped at the first post if there is no acceptable language certificate.  It means a lot of wasted time and money.  The only option is to wait until you have 10 years residency (unless any more goalposts are changed!). Also, if it's rejected, you're not allowed to re-apply for 12 months. 

For anyone in the process of or considering applying for citizenship, this FB site is the best place to go for up to date info.  There are also loads of useful docs in the 'files' section.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/APPLYINGFORITALIANCITIZENSHIP/?ref=bookmarks

Offline Relaxed

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2019, 12:30:38 AM »
Obtaining Italian citizenship isn't anything I have studied, and although I have friends (with 10 year plus residencies) who started the process basically the day after the referendum result, they are still getting requests for 'extra' documentation'.

In my opinion you need to be in a special circumstance to consider changing your citizenship, for example family relationships with non EU citizens, or a particular employment from which you might be excluded as a third country national.

Maybe I'm too laid back, or too old, but I'm reasonably content that continuing to live in Italy as a 'third country national' (if Brexit happens) isn't going to throw up enough snags to merit the hassle of 'becoming Italian'.

Offline iggle piggle

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2019, 12:05:36 PM »
I agree that it's really only worth the effort if you have a particular reason.  I am personally pursuing it so that my children, having grown up in Italy, will then regain their right to free movement and have the same opportunities in the future as Italian kids currently do. 

Offline Olive Oyl

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2019, 05:59:04 PM »
I too have just applied for citizenship. I don't have aB1 certificate but I have A2 which I took just in case just before the referendum. When I read about the requirement for B1, I applied to take the exam which is in a month's time and I attached the A2 certificate together with the confirmation of my exam entry enrolment and my citizenship application has been accepted so far. That doesn't mean it won't get thrown out further down the line, but shows that so far anyway, a lower certificate seems to be ok with them. I might need to provide the B1, assuming I pass  :( It will be interesting to see if I get asked for it down the long and no doubt very winding road!  ::)

Offline Relaxed

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2019, 12:55:36 AM »
So, iggle piggle, do your children automatically become Italian (EU) citizens if you manage, yourself, to achieve that status? Or do they have to make an application on their own behalf - and if so, are they old enough to do so?
I understand (and totally commend) your desire to ensure that your children have the same 'status in the world' which we Brits all enjoy currently.
As I read it, in EU law, as dependants of a 'union citizen', which you hope to become, they will be able to piggyback on your rights concerning residency, but I am less than convinced that they will be covered by 'freedom of movement' unless they too change their nationality.
I'm sure you have researched this stuff (and I haven't managed to study the link you provided), so I'd like to have your take on this.

Offline iggle piggle

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2019, 02:27:44 PM »
Once I get citizenship, as long as my children are still considered minors (I think under 18) the will automatically also obtain dual citizenship without having to apply separately. So in effect, they can obtain Italian passports.  If they are no longer minors (which for one of them this might end up being the case as they now have up to 4 years to decide your case!!), they would have to apply in their own right.  This was confirmed by an International lawyer I spoke to.

You have to be an EU citizen to have the right to free movement, not just resident.  I believe a request was made to the EU to allow Brits like us with residency in one of the EU countries (non-UK obviously) to continue to have our right to free movement but Brussels turned this down.  The UK government obviously thought it could cherry-pick!

Olive Oyl:  You might get lucky...! Who knows.


Offline Tartufa

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 06:50:01 AM »
Were your children born in Italy Iggle Piggle?  Although Italian citizenship rights are passed via Jus Sanguines I understand that children born on Italian soil can in some way 'fast track' citizenship. Those not having to wait until they are 18. Or something like that.
www.welcometosulmona.com The only English language insiders' guide to Sulmona and the Valle Peligna.

Offline Olive Oyl

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Re: Citizenship News
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 02:24:07 PM »
In case this is useful info - my citizenship application which was accepted got annulled. I got a call this morning from the Prefettura being very helpful but apologetic saying that I didn't actually have the required level but that as soon as I passed the exam and got the right certificate, I could re-apply and all the existing documents would still be valid as long as I do it before mid June.

I said that that would be after Brexit though and I would no longer be an EU citizen - they said I would still be eligible to apply as I would still have all the same rights as now so it would be no problem.

I assume that this is thanks to the Italian government's legislation protecting UK citizen's rights even with a no deal Brexit til at least the end of this year.

Might be helpful for those like Molino who have been rejected because of lack of the B1?