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Offline Relaxed

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Anti Brexit march in London
« on: June 24, 2018, 01:50:07 AM »
Even those of you who only follow Italian news channels cannot fail to have noticed that in London today there was a pretty massive march in protest against the UK Government's railroading through their Hard Brexit intentions.


Are you all asleep, or perhaps you don't think you are entitled to an opinion. Have you even followed this discussion?


Fair enough, if you just have a holiday home here it's sort of meh, as it is for US/Canada/Aus/Nz/rest of the world citizens.


But those of you UK citizens who have elected to be resident in Italy, this Brexit stuff is a bit of a huge deal. You should look into what it is likely going to mean for you. It might not suit your world view of yourself.






Offline levissima

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2018, 10:41:45 AM »
Oh believe me, Iím paying attention, not only to Brexit but to the changes in Italy, which might mean being aníimmigrantí from a non EU country makes life a bit more difficult.

There are also rumours circulating about lumping the state pension in with universal credit. Every time I get close to getting my pension, they move it further away and now Iíve only got another month to go it might evaporate, like a mirage oasis in the desert.

Plan for your future ha!🤪

Offline nil satis

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2018, 11:21:03 AM »
This has been pretty low key in the media in the UK whether that was intentional or because the football is on I am not sure.

Offline GeordieBorn

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2018, 11:22:50 AM »
If you are awake yet Relaxed, perhaps you can enlighten us all on what it is going to mean, we can then perhaps pass that information on to Johnson May & Co UK.
Levi I'm sure you will get that pension, I just worry how much hassle it might entail for you, none I hope :)

Offline Cassius

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2018, 05:06:51 PM »
I don't think that it is at all 'meh' to any of us, however, I cannot see, even in my wildest dreams, that the result of the referendum will ever be overturned.   Although I support the march and have signed the petition and forwarded it to many of my friends, I remember far far greater numbers marching against our involvement in the Iran war and where did that get us?

Offline herbfinder

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2018, 09:37:10 PM »
Personally I am very worried about the news from the UK, companies will desert the UK when they lose European links and we will end up with a crap agreement fumbling around for anything with untried and unreliable trade links. The 800K ex-pats living in Europe are non tax earners when compared with the 2.5 million EU citizens living in the UK so we have realistically have no bargaining power. We have left our children and future generations with a terrible load and I personally feel very sad about that.

Offline Relaxed

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2018, 12:26:11 AM »
I'm much in agreement with herbfinder, and share Levi's worry about what the 'anti-immigrant' rhetoric of Salvini could potentially mean for the future of UK citizens resident in Italy.

If, as looks increasingly likely, the UK crashes out of the EU with "No Deal" there is no possibility that "The EU" will have any interest in UK citizens living in Italy - or any possibility of 'helping' us. The UK will become a 'third country', and we will have exactly the same status in Italy as someone from Morocco, Albania, or the US. Now the US citizens tend to be relatively well off, the others (including some of us) are not so financially cushioned.

So, immediate effects of a "no deal" are not entirely predictable, we will fall back upon nationally made agreements between the UK and Italy, and the EU shock-absorber will simply not be there.

About ten years ago Italy had a tiff with Australia, and for a couple of years it was not possible for an Australian to purchase a house here. There wasn't any suggestion of 'confiscating' already owned Australians' houses, but this is the sort of 'danger' which arises when we depend on agreements made between nation states.

Now, I am going to take issue with those who say that UK citizens in Europe are mainly retired people. That is simply not true, (although on this forum, and in Italy and Spain in general, it isn't that far off). So, few of us here are as directly impacted as UK citizens working in financial services, medicine, academia, engineering, transport, IT etc.etc, in, for example, Germany; and the 'British in Europe' advocates are majorly looking after the interests of these economically active British people - which is fair enough - they face more disaster than we do.

As far as the 'freezing' of UK State Pensions is concerned, that is entirely up to the UK if the UK leaves with no deal. Our entitlement to any state provided Italian health cover will disappear (although we may be allowed to 'buy in' at an affordable price). The validity of a British driving licence will become much more problematic, and the present option of 'converting' a UK licence to an Italian one will not exist. Travelling will involve an ETIAS (akin to the US ESTA - doesn't cost much, usually instant online) and this one may impact even holiday home owners.

I don't know if any of you have UK bank accounts with Credit Cards associated (I don't) but a friend told me she had received a text from her bank saying that her UK Credit Card would not be abilitated for cash withdrawals at a future date. I'm not sure about the date, and she wasn't sure about anything - but if any of you have had a similar text message I'd love to hear from you. (Note, this was a Credit card, not a Debit card.)

I'll think about whatever other peripheral annoyances we will face, but I'll leave you with a quote from Germany, today: "we are not proposing to deport UK citizens...."

WTF is the point of pursuing Brexit?


Offline levissima

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2018, 09:01:18 AM »
I think we are in for interesting times!

I have a deal with Vodafone, which gives me 300 minutes a month for Ä10 to international calls throughout Europe. That might end when the uk leaves.

I know of several Italians who are visiting the uk this year because theyíre expecting it to be more difficult and expensive after Brexit.

Itís nice to hear the Germans are not intending to deport UK citizens, but then you have to remember the UK has been deporting itís own citizens for a while!

Governments are good at telling you that you should plan for your future and then, once you have, they go and change the future! Iím glad Iím old!

Offline GeordieBorn

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2018, 11:22:49 AM »
Personally I am very worried about the news from the UK, companies will desert the UK when they lose European links and we will end up with a crap agreement fumbling around for anything with untried and unreliable trade links. The 800K ex-pats living in Europe are non tax earners when compared with the 2.5 million EU citizens living in the UK so we have realistically have no bargaining power. We have left our children and future generations with a terrible load and I personally feel very sad about that.
I totally agree with this last statement, as for the rest, including Relaxed comments, I'm not so sure or particularly worried. However the wider picture outside of brexit worries me a lot more for future generations, brexit is just a small part of this growing "Kafka/Orwell" like world.I do love Levi saying she if old however as it makes me feel young(er) :D

Offline stefanaccio

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2018, 05:29:09 PM »
My guess is that the Brits already living in Italia will be grandfathered in and allowed to remain.  That said, it might be a good idea to look over some of the requirements necessary for Americans to get an ER visa as these may well apply to newcomers.  The USA Italian consulates providing an ER visa typically require (more or less, no arguments please cause the rules vary from consulate to consulate) proof of health insurance, a dependable income of ~$30k for the first applicant (~$10k more for additional family members), a 2-4 month wait to get an appointment, a commitment to live in Italy for a long period of time, and a well documented place to live (e.g., long term lease agreement).   During the stay these residents are not allowed to be formally employed.  Each consulate has a great deal of leeway as whether or not they approve the ER and the decisions they make are extremely difficult to appeal.  My guess is that the holiday home folks will see little change in their status but those wanting to live in Italy full time are going to have a difficult time making a go of it.       

Offline old timer

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2018, 06:45:17 PM »
As Brussels is going everything it posibly can to stop the UK leaving the EU it has no intention of having any meaningful negotiations. It us not suprizing that there is no positive way forward.. You only have to look at Brussels saying any UK qualifications will not be recognised in the EU. They will not recognise airline airworthiness as the people performing the task with not have a recognised qualification. That all sounds very helpful.
The answer from the Brussels is no unless Brussels initiated it. The problem not just for the UK is that more people in different countries don't like the way Brussels wants to push things. You only have to look at the way 5 Star and lega have grown over the last few years.

Offline herbfinder

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2018, 10:09:27 AM »
Well in looks like the UK government is starting to disintegrate putting the Prime minister under a lot of pressure and future negotiations with the EU under even more pressure. Its not in the interests of the EU to make this process easy and with no obvious direction coming from the UK government it looks like Brexit could be very unsettling which is what businesses hate and the chances are they will speed up their plans to move operations to a more European friendly country. Personally I am looking  to applying for a French (French wife) or a Irish passport before March 2019. 

Offline Rustychain

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2018, 12:11:50 PM »
Personally I am looking  to applying for a French (French wife) or a Irish passport before March 2019.

Have you got a French wife yet or is that part of the plan?  ;D
In Abruzzo since March 2013

Offline GeordieBorn

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Re: Anti Brexit march in London
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2018, 12:14:03 PM »
What really bothers me was knowing all the cr@p debate that would go on once the vote to leave was made, but worse still is now realising it will likely continue for 10-15 years after the bloody event with everyone either blaming or praising it for whatever latest event is occurring ???