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Author Topic: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat  (Read 578 times)

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Offline dolcevita

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Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« on: December 04, 2017, 08:55:22 PM »
Hopefully everyone here is keeping up with the news about the facilities already build within the Gran Sasso? There has already been 1 accident in 2016 and there will surely be more to come.

The threat of dangerous radioactivity are very worrying.
a third rate mind follows the crowd


Offline GeordieBorn

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 09:37:22 PM »
Do you have any link for this DV?

Offline Venatore

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2017, 11:07:25 PM »
Leaks seem to be par for the course with any radioactive process eventually.
A much greater long term personal exposure for individuals in Abruzzo is likely to be naturally occurring Radon gas. It is universally present wherever you are but levels can vary dramatically dependant on location. Overall it's our greatest exposure to radiation and the second highest cause of lung cancer after smoking. Indoors radon can build to dangerously high levels so it is worthwhile to to carry out a simple test on your property and remediate if necesssry. Costs to do so can be quite modest and simple to install.
V.

Offline Cheryl

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 11:09:48 PM »
I have been reading up on this Radon. Quite scary really, and I new nothing of it. Out of interest, has anybody tested for it or bought a testing kit.

Offline Venatore

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 10:06:05 PM »
I must declare an interest Cheryl
Ionising Radon testing and mitigation is what I do in the UK so it was this of course that made me check the situation in Abruzzo.
Abruzzo is by no means unique but it's geological makeup and my background and the nature of construction of my property here all encouraged me to test my levels. I am unaware of testing provision in Italy but passive Alfa Track Etch Detectors are available from a few suppliers in the Uk and can be used to test over a 3 month or longer period to give a corrected average for the property. Alternatively digital readers can be purchased for about £200 which can provide live readings wherever you are.
Of course I had my own so not a issue for me.
Testing is simple and due to the possible risks and the ease of mitigation there is in my opinion no reason not to. Statistically you are like to have moderate levels but it's better to know that for sure.
V.

Offline Cheryl

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 10:13:50 PM »
Thanks for that Venatore. Can you recommend a cheap testing kit to buy online from Amazon or the likes.

Offline Rustychain

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 11:06:41 PM »
If we bought a kit & found our Radon levels to be high, what should we do?

 ???
In Abruzzo since March 2013

Offline Venatore

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 11:13:19 PM »
Cheryl
All the passive detectors are very much of a muchness! They come in packs of two and are generally round black puck like objects. They are generally placed in the lounge and the bedroom as these are the rooms one is expected to spend the most time in. After a 3 month exposure period they are returned to the supplier for analysis and then a report will be sent to you. These kits including posting and analysis usually cost in the region of £50. A digital reader from someone like 'Airthings' cost about £180 and provide live readings you can monitor and in my experience both systems provide very similar readings over the long term. Other systems like 'wave smart' don't provide the same numerical accuracy so are probably best avoided.
V.

Offline Venatore

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 11:55:15 PM »
Rustychain

Every property is different and in the UK we would recommend a site visit before we could supply an informed recommendation.
However 'in principle' Radon enters your property because its present in the geology beneath your house and because there is a pressure differential between the outside and the inside. Cold air outside has more mass so pushes down on the geology and warm air inside has less mass so sucks upon the geology. Radon takes the route of least resistance so gets sucked into the property through all the little micro cracks and fissures that every property has and then gets contained by the walls and roof and can then build up to high cumulative levels that normal ventilation of opening doors and windows does not address. Outside Radon gas dissipates quickly so the solution is to prevent it coming in in the first place.
In practise often revolves around three methodologies in older properties:

[1] Improving the passive ventilation in the property by opening more doors and windows for longer. Easy in summer but un likely in winter and this is the time when internal radon levels are likely to be highest due to the temperature differential.
[2] Increasing the air pressure in the house with a positive pressure fan. These are often located in the loft and mechanically ventilate air into the property on a permanent basis. They are very quiet and unobtrusive and very good at addressing mould and damp issues.
[3] A fan assisted sump system. Here a small void about the volume of a builders bucket is excavated beneath the concrete or flagged lower floor and is depressurised via ducting by a mechanical fan and vented to the exterior where it dissipates quickly.

I would also add that if you have a cantina make sure that is well ventilated as that is the room in the house that tends to have the greatest exposure to the geology and is therefore likely to suffer the greatest ingress.
V.

Offline Rustychain

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2017, 04:50:41 PM »
I'm as far from being an expert as can be imagined, but I'm not sure that residents of this corner of the world have a history of premature deaths from Radon exposure, so, for me, it's gone on the 'not worth worrying about' list!

Others may differ....
In Abruzzo since March 2013

Offline GeordieBorn

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2017, 09:50:21 PM »
I'm as far from being an expert as can be imagined, but I'm not sure that residents of this corner of the world have a history of premature deaths from Radon exposure, so, for me, it's gone on the 'not worth worrying about' list!

Others may differ....

We too won't really worry too much about it as at our stage in life (read getting a lot older...) we kind of don't worry about such things... :-[

Offline Venatore

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2017, 11:36:02 PM »
It's only ever a problem when it's a problem!
Statistically most are likely to have quite modest Radon levels but someone will always draw the short straw and end up with very high readings. The EPA equate a 800bqm3 reading with a relative risk equivalent to smoking 20 cigarettes a day. If you are middle aged you may rightly consider that an acceptable risk but if you have a young child you may not, as of course their exposure is much longer. In the uk we have measured family homes with levels of 100bqm and family homes of 20,000bqm and from just looking at the house there was no way of telling which was which.
In the UK the Health Protection Agency say about 1500 deaths occur every year as a direct result of Radon exposure, which to some may not seem very much but I bet it seems more significant to those who are struck down.
I have a young family, I am aware of the risks and I chose to test so I could make an informed decision. Abruzzo is not blighted with Radon anymore than say Cornwall or Devon however it does exist and inevitably some homes will have high levels and it's that home's owner who chooses whether they wish to do anything about it.
Radon levels can be addressed and Abruzzo is a spectacular beautiful place.!!!!
V.

Offline GeordieBorn

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2017, 10:01:35 AM »
It's only ever a problem when it's a problem!
Statistically most are likely to have quite modest Radon levels but someone will always draw the short straw and end up with very high readings. The EPA equate a 800bqm3 reading with a relative risk equivalent to smoking 20 cigarettes a day. If you are middle aged you may rightly consider that an acceptable risk but if you have a young child you may not, as of course their exposure is much longer. In the uk we have measured family homes with levels of 100bqm and family homes of 20,000bqm and from just looking at the house there was no way of telling which was which.
In the UK the Health Protection Agency say about 1500 deaths occur every year as a direct result of Radon exposure, which to some may not seem very much but I bet it seems more significant to those who are struck down.
I have a young family, I am aware of the risks and I chose to test so I could make an informed decision. Abruzzo is not blighted with Radon anymore than say Cornwall or Devon however it does exist and inevitably some homes will have high levels and it's that home's owner who chooses whether they wish to do anything about it.
Radon levels can be addressed and Abruzzo is a spectacular beautiful place.!!!!
V.

 Unfortunately we donít even make the middle age bracket any longer! I did wonder why a radon test was included in our UK house survey a few years ago, Iím now guessing this is common?
 

Offline Venatore

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2017, 01:10:27 PM »
Yes, it's usually requested during the conveyance if you are in a Radon affected area.
V.

Offline Relaxed

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Re: Gran Sasso Nuclear Threat
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2017, 01:45:28 AM »
Venatore has told me a load of really interesting stuff about radon, and how it can enter your house through fissures in a ground slab, and how it can be easily counteracted

I'd just like to point out that (afaik national Italian) buiding regs insist on a ventilated cavity between a habitable  'ground floor' and the real ground. So, while if you have an 'unrestored' and unventilated cantina, (with a fissured floor in contact with 'radon prone' ground), there is a remote possibility that radon gas could enter your first floor living spaces.

Or, if you are using ground floor spaces as habitation, without having complied with the requirement for sub-floor ventilation, then clearly radon gas could become a relevant consideration in those ground floor rooms.

In new build in Italy (I think also in the UK) the norm is for a 'suspended' ground floor, which isolates the habitable ground floor from the underlying geology. BUT, as always, builders want to keep it cheap, and if I was worried about radon gas infiltration I wouldn't be very sanguine about the 'granchio' solution so frequently (and entirely legally) adopted in Italy.

But, overall, I do favour the 'not worry about it' position taken by many posters. You are either going to get hit by a terrorist (like a 1 i n a million chance) or you get slowly poisoned by radon gas. Or you don't.