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Author Topic: Retrospective demand for ICI  (Read 574 times)

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Offline Lui

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Retrospective demand for ICI
« on: September 14, 2017, 06:38:21 PM »
The postlady brought us both a letter by raccomandata yesterday demanding payment for ICI for 2012. Our Italian neighbours and the holiday home next door but one also had similar. We have receipts for payment by both of us for June and December of 2012. In June the form was filled out for us by an employee in the Comune as it was our first time and in December the form was filled by a commercialista working in C.M.R. We're kinda mystified. They've also added on interest at 30%. Anyone else had a similar experience?


Offline Tartufa

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Re: Retrospective demand for ICI
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 07:50:45 AM »
Yes. Firstly the Comune has a 5 year period within which to ask for back payments and it is not at all unusual to receive a bill after such a long time.  Secondly, we received a bill for underpayment on one of our properties from 2011. It was indeed their mistake, and nothing was due, so it is worth going along to ask nicely if they can explain.
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Offline Vignaverde

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Re: Retrospective demand for ICI
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 09:14:52 AM »
I have heard more and more comunes asking for back payment. When you consider what happens if you do not pay council tax in the UK we are let off lightly here. Some comunes will not ask because they do not want to upset the public, I suppose that is the downside of locals running their comunes, they would rather see no money in the coffers rather than billing a friend.
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Offline Lui

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Re: Retrospective demand for ICI
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 06:21:28 PM »
It's not strictly speaking back payment. We paid both in June and December and have receipts. It seems on lengthy examination of the papers that came with the bill that we underpaid in December. So it looks like the commercialista dropped the ball. Interesting that next door's and next door but one's commercialistas did the same?!

Offline Lui

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Re: Retrospective demand for ICI
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2017, 06:57:22 PM »
Sorry I forgot to say; to address the "we get off lightly" comment, I couldn't agree more. I think it's absurd that again now we pay nothing as we have a 'prima casa' when the comune is by all accounts poorly funded. I wouldn't expect to pay as much as we paid in the UK because the infrastructure is less robust but some sort of contribution should be expected.

Offline PJM

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Re: Retrospective demand for ICI
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 11:12:59 PM »
I just suggest going to your commune and explaining with all the paper work ..in my village they are usually very helpful . I had  a fine delivered because they said they I not paid a water bill ..they were very embarrassed when I went up with evidence of my paid bills ..its happened twice ..if it's your commercialists  fault go back to them to sort after all you pay them .
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 11:16:25 PM by PJM »

Offline Relaxed

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Re: Retrospective demand for ICI
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2017, 12:04:07 AM »
I'm not in Abruzzo, but a friend local to me got the same 'ICI not paid (or underpaid) in 2012' letter from the comune. So, he went to the comune, said 'what's this about', and was told that his payments for 2012 were all okay according to comune records.
So, I'm in the clear then? he said. Not necessarily, was the reply - maybe it's about a different year, what you need to do is send us a fax (and leap through a few more hoops) and he didn't bother to do this. He then got a bill for not a huge amount of 'underpayment' and simply got rid of the problem by paying it.

It's wrong though, and you should argue it. I got a 'non payment' notice for a client (iirc it was for 2007 - arrived in 2012 or so), and I had the receipts, paid at a post office. I took these into the comune and they said - ah well, sometimes the post office payments don't get recorded - like it becomes MY problem? But this 2012 stuff this year seems to be pretty widespread (I don't think that anything special changed in 2012, like an extra late payment request, though I may be wrong about this). Maybe it's significant that the comunes try this stuff on every five years. If you have the receipts, stand your ground. If the notice mentions 2012, then it is 2012 that you need to challenge. Don't be fobbed off!

Offline Lui

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Re: Retrospective demand for ICI
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2017, 07:55:15 AM »
Thanks for all the responses people. We're going down on Monday to try to sort it out. It's not a huge amount but when you feel that you've tried your best to comply it does piss one off. Can't help but think that if the Comune worked out how much you should pay and then sent out a bill things would be easier ;-)

Offline GeordieBorn

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Re: Retrospective demand for ICI
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2017, 10:55:20 AM »
We had a similar thing last year for a missing 2011 amount, I suspected at the time this is likely a normal 5 year trawl and now think Tartufa confirms these suspicions. At first we were convinced we had paid everything on time, then realised the missing payment was for a small period between buying and getting residency. What we were really thrown by was the fact there was only a bill for one of us (house in both names), but it turned out they just lumped both missing amounts on to one! 

Offline rometony

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Re: Retrospective demand for ICI
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 09:16:57 PM »

Two points!

1) we have a similar demand (with interest for non payment) however the commune admit we may not have received the original bill and for sure the reminder sent in 2015 was never signed for and returned and collected from the post office,I think we were away at the time.
So for sure we are ....ongoing..........in discussions with the commune about this and more than happy to pay what is due however not too happy about paying interest on a bill never received.
2) VV, are you saying that you know of communes that dont send out bills and reminders because they dont want to offend people??
T

Offline Lui

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Re: Retrospective demand for ICI
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 08:44:25 AM »
Our Comune (Castiglione M.R.) doesn't send out bills at all for ICI, IMU or whatever. It only sends out bills for rubbish collection and as we now know eventually sends out bills plus interest for non-payment of ICI etc.  It is up to the individual homeowner to work out, either with a commercialista or using the form on the Comune's website how much they need to pay and when and print off a bill and pay it. We went to the Comune yesterday and after much head scratching and furrowing of brow the guy there finally worked out what the problem was. Yes we'd paid both in June and December but between those months the Comune had upped the % rate chargeable, a fact that our commercialista was blissfully unaware of! So we had underpaid in December.  "Why does it have to be so complicated?", we asked. "It's Italy", came the answer with a shrug. So we'll have to pay it as it is deemed to be our mistake. It's not much and we should have paid it in the first place (gladly I might add) but the interest is a bummer. I suspect that quite a few will have been caught out as 2012 was the first year the tax was re-introduced after Berlusconi dropped it to make himself Mr. Popular. Two of our neighbours at least have also received demands, think there'll be a lot more.