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Offline Vignaverde

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Warning
« on: April 21, 2017, 11:31:00 AM »
Last week I had the unpleasant experience of helping out a British couple who moved to Abruzzo last year. This couple came to me to help with some translations as they were visited by the Carabinieri a few weeks ago. This particular branch of the Carabinieri look after building control and go around checking on houses which are having work done. This couple had unfortunately employed an un registered builder to do work patching up their roof and are now facing a minimum of E7000 fine and 'Penale' action. Luckily the Carabinieri were lenient and have overlooked many things which could have made the fine over E10,000. This fine is for both the builder and the owner of the house, E7000 each.

After discussions with the Carabinieri he told us that they are stepping up control of all sites and are clamping down in a big way. If you are the home owner it is YOUR responsibility to make sure that any workers at your house have the right documentation otherwise you and the builder are equally liable. anyone who is not on the official documents, like a casual laborer could cause you HUGE problems, not only will you have a minimum fine which can be up to E7000 you will also get into trouble for paying cash and you will be classed as the employer without a company which you can use to employ someone, all of this means massive fines and possibility of prison.

It has been a terribly hard lesson for this couple and the minimum fines these people can issue start around E1000, not hundreds but thousands ! If you violate 4 laws you time this by 4 etc etc.

PLease anyone having work done at the moment check the documents of the builder, there is a document called a DURK check this and it will have the names of the people who can work. Get the builder to sign a document (and you) saying no one else other than the named persons are allowed on your property. This way you can cover yourself because if you employ a builder and they have someone on site who works on the side YOU and the builder will be fined.

I have only ever known 2 people get huge fines like this but now they are doing the rounds and they are increasing these checks more and more, if you are not sure then contact your geometra and get them to check everything, please do not take the risk. 

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Offline Cassius

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Re: Warning
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 12:06:35 PM »
Where do you stand then if you do things yourself?

Offline Relaxed

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Re: Warning
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 01:42:43 PM »
Interesting question Cassius.
There are not a lot of things which you can do yourself. Decoration, tiling (also external paving), putting lining walls in lower rooms is about it. Not even all works which can be done entirely without notification to the comune can be done entirely legally yourself.
The snag is that there are a lot of laws covering 'building work' and they are based on one or more considerations. Health and safety is one consideration, (here doing it yourself isn't so much of a problem, but hiring someone who hasn't got a DURC does become your problem).
Then there are laws which insist that the work is done by a sufficiently skilled 'abilitated' person. This clearly covers electrical and central heating work which needs to be certified, but there are also more minor plumbing works (changing bathroom fittings for example) which are controlled by idrosanitarie regulations, and you're not even supposed to do these.
Any work which needs a SCIA, or a Super Dia, or a full concessione needs to be done by a contractor with a current DURC. This is a way of checking the tax and national insurance status of the contractor - and it's basically to get the government money. Just having a DURC doesn't mean the contractor is 'abilitated' to do the work.
But clearly a lot of Italians 'do it themselves'. It's a matter of common sense, and knowing what you can do 'invisibly', and this depends on where your house is located, whether you have nasty neighbours, and whether you need a big pile of sand outside.
Here's an eight page legal opinion on 'doing it yourself' - it looks pretty solid to me, and maybe google translate can manage it.

http://www.studioredaelli.it/database/COMMITTENTE%20IMPRENDITORE%20FAI%20DA%20TE.pdf

Offline Vignaverde

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Re: Warning
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 02:13:00 PM »
Sorry for my spelling of Durc! Thanks Lax.

A very  ery basic rule to DIY is no gas, no electric and nothing structural ie roofs structure walls etc. Also be careful with scaffolding but im not going down that line again  ;D
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Offline Vignaverde

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Re: Warning
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 02:18:10 PM »
Following on a little from Relaxed, the new crackdown includes plain clothed un marked cars going around first to see where work is going off then they come back with thr local Carabinieri, they must always be accompanied by the local police before entering your property.
The 2 people thought someone had said something but it turned out they got many others on their rounds.
It may never happen to you but the reason i have written is because of the size of the potential fines and the threat of prison. The fines are eye watering
Estate agents in Abruzzo www.vignaverde.com
Day seminar event in the UK www.liveladolcevita.co.uk

Offline Cassius

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Re: Warning
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 04:36:09 PM »
Thanks Lax - that's very interesting.  Obviously in Italy and elsewhere there is a necessary and understandable Health and Safety issue with D.I.Y. - but where does someone who is qualified, say in the U.K, to do certain things when they apply their knowledge to their own property?  Where does taking sensible precautions give way to money making and/or protectionism of certain trades?